If ones god is so wise...
Before i pose the topic/question i wish to state my intention is not to insult or to be insulted or indeed to question anyones faith. Faith is an individuals choice and belief and i respect their decision.However! I suppose i'm about to play devils advocate again, so here goes.... i genuinely for sometime have poseda question to certain individuals of DIFFERENT faith, and to date, not received a satisfactory answer, methodist, Jewish (in fact the Rabbi was at a stall at the street fair in Palm Springs called "Ask the Rabbi", so i did! And he became quite rude calling me Ignorant!), particularly Muslims, for reasons which will become obvious, Mormon, Born again christians, a close personal friend who is a Jehovahs Witness, etc etc etc The question is, "If your god is powerful and wise, why did he-in some cases-create, or allow others to create, a religious book that is so ambiguous people all around the world read it and take different meanings from it? Allowing-particularly in the Korans case-radicalism, separatism, etc, Surely if these various gods etc that religious people choose to follow were wise and powerful they would only want one meaning to come from their doctrine, not several?
The problem being, we as humans are not perfect and never will be. As such, our language is also imperfect. And languages evolve. As holy scriptures (or any sort) are translated into various languages, sometimes words are mis-translated (ie one word has several meanings and it was accidentally translated with the wrong meaning). Also as our languages are ever-changing, sometimes what a word meant ages ago, is not what it means now.
I recall a bible study where a place is referred to as "being in shambles" which in modern day english means its a mess and dilapidated. But that is not what 'shambles' meant years ago, so in that context, folks reading it today would misunderstand the meaning.
Basically all my rambling is to simply say - language is a funny creature, and often things get misunderstood or miscontrued. Not only in religion, but in all aspects of life.
~Barb~
The problem being, we as humans are not perfect and never will be. As such, our language is also imperfect. And languages evolve. As holy scriptures (or any sort) are translated into various languages, sometimes words are mis-translated (ie one word has several meanings and it was accidentally translated with the wrong meaning). Also as our languages are ever-changing, sometimes what a word meant ages ago, is not what it means now. I recall a bible study where a place is referred to as "being in shambles" which in modern day english means its a mess and dilapidated. But that is not what 'shambles' meant years ago, so in that context, folks reading it today would misunderstand the meaning. Basically all my rambling is to simply say - language is a funny creature, and often things get misunderstood or miscontrued. Not only in religion, but in all aspects of life. ~Barb~
Another example of changed word meanings is John 14:1, "In my father's house are many mansions" (King James Version). But the more modern versions say something like, "In my father's house are many rooms." At the time of King James, a mansion was a dwelling place. Today a mansion is a very opulent huge house, that only the wealthy can afford.
"If your god is powerful and wise, why did he-in some cases-create, or allow others to create, a religious book that is so ambiguous people all around the world read it and take diferent meanings from it?
The Bible is a very beautiful work of literature. Each person's faith is very personal to to him/her. Scripture very often means different things to different people. It is "How does the Bible speak to you?" I don't believe in the straight jacket of a literally inerrant Bible.
I also believe that some mystery is healthy spiritually. There will always be questions about what the Bible meant. Did Jesus really walk on water?
The earth and all that is in and about it exists to allow persons to analyze and make decisions as to what they personally believe, or disbelieve according to what ever efforts they take to come to their own conclusions. A relationship between your God is a personal one, and to everyone there will be a day of reckoning when we each as individuals will give account of our actions in life. Just because one chooses to belong to a given denomination and/or organization is not a free pass to the big pie in the sky, a denomination can not save you, but only a personal relationship with your creator can.
Some choose to think they can avoid any responsibility for their actions on earth and accountabilities, for these believe that we have all come to existence by chance, and not by intelligent design. We have only to state what the top intellectual researchers of science say, the odds of all we see and experience in the physical realm (things many of us refer to as the created) to have just happened by chance is the equivalency to setting a hydrogen bomb off under a large garbage dump, and having the debris fall down to form into a brand new Bowing 767 ready for take off.
Creation by intelligent divine design is sound and the book called THE HOLY BIBLE is the instructions for all creation. Bible Scripture is accurate! however many who read it interpret it in a manner to suit their own likes and dislikes, thus causing confusions, God is not the author of confusion, seek truth and you can find it in Christ Jesus. The idea we evolved from a couple of lovesick ameba is as dumb as the author who was busted by DNA test results of his fake missing link collection of bones from different animals, aka Darwin's theory, Darwin is dead and he is not coming back.
ok, the posts I've read so far haven't really addressed the question you asked. . If I don't die in an explosion tomorrow, I'll look forward to seeing how this discussion develops.
Absolutely superb intelligent answer but i'm still not sure you clearly addressed the question, you see if i ask any reader who believes in a particular god why his god allows any other, or other belief, why is his god not clear an defined in his teachings to leave only one belief for all to follow? You see you propose several times "i suggest" that people follow the god of love, my whole point is shouldn't a real god, if he exists, be directing all to this unambigous view anyway? Others talk about "god" giving man free will to make his/her mind up themselves, this seems a totally bizarre answer to me, suggesting god in his wisdom allows all to argue over his teachings? Others, yourself included, mention how disciples etc wrote down his teachings and the meaning got watered down/lost in translation, but thats my whole point, why did he allow that knowing it will create confrontation, separatism and extremism?
Excellent post vince, now all we have to do, is just make everyone else understand.
Maybe he just realised, that the human race would develop an intelligence, far superior
to all the other two million odd life forms on the planet. An intelligence that could and
would, be able to overcome the laws of nature that normally control the populations of
all the other life forms. So he needed a spanner to through in the works. An inbuilt
self-destruct mechanism that would prevent human overpopulation and the ultimate
demise of the planet and all the other species.
btw, you might find this thread interesting.
https://www.truenudists.com/forum/viewthread.php?id=6373
I always think that it's funny how the ones who have extreme views and say the Bible (or whatever book they read) is the absolute word of their god and not subject to interpritation. Then they spout out some weird comment that you know isn't actually true. Christians and Jews refer to the 10Commandmants, there are many more than 10 (200+) so why do they only mention 10 or is it because they don't want to have to stonetheir disobedient children to death!! I saw a TV program that wasfollowing a 13 year old evangelist she thought the whole world had sinned and everyone was going to hell, in one conversation she saidshe didn't drink because the Bible says not to - where and what about the'water into wine' story!!
Here's one to think about, if sex is only supposed to be used forreproduction why is it that the 'system' works the way it does. Surely it would be more efficient for an egg to be released when the manejaculates so it is more successful.The current system is so inefficient that it requires a lotmore sex than may otherwise beneeded - If I had a designer working for me and he came up with that one I'd sack him -not very intelligent!!
Other things you need to remember, the New Testiment was put together by people who wanted to make a point, there were other Christian groups around at the time but they was persecuted by the Roman church. There were over 30 Gospels written, the editors of the Bible chose 4 that had the same message (although 3 of them were probably based on the 4th in the first place).
Also, it doesn't matter which religion you are part of, you are in a minority or in other words if you are correct in your beliefs the majority of the World are wrong - a betting man would say you have odds of around 6:1 that you are right!!
We used to get regularly accosted by local god botherers who would exhort me to 'change my ways'. I would always quote them Luke 15:7 from the King James Bible
"I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that
repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no
repentance. - just consider me as racking up the joy points in preparation for the day."
Love n stuff
Rudie x
You could have a l00 people see an accident, watch a movie, or read a book and each one would have a different view.
I would much rather believe in god and find out there isn't one than to not believe and find out there is one. For those that do not believe how did the bible know the earth was not flat or there were mountains under the ocean a couple thousand years before scientist figured it out? And if humans came out of the sea like scientist say, which was made first the skin, lungs, heart or blood. How was the blood and sea water kept seperate until it had veins
God gave us free will to make mistakes or not.
There are definitely more than one book called the Bible. The Torah contains the 5 Books of Moses =is the first of three parts of the Tanakh (Hebrew Bible), the founding religious document of Judaism and is divided into five books, whose names in English are Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. According to Jewish tradition the Torah was revealed to Moses in 1312 BCE at Mount Sinai; (another date given for this event is 1280 BCE). Then there is the Midrash, the Hebrew term for "Interpretation." The word generally used for any written or oral commentary on the biblical text. The original purpose was to resolve problems in the Hebrew text.
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