Terminology *Bisexual*
I've seen this a staggering number of times now, so I am writing a little post about it. When you are bisexual, it means that you are attracted on some level to both men and women. When you are in a relationship of any kind that is heterogeneous, that is a heterosexual relationship in which one person is str8 or bi, and the other is bi. If you are in a homogenous relationship of any kind, that is a homosexual relationship. One Gay man and one bi man are not having bi sex. It's gay sex. It may seem piddling, but we already have bi-curious, thinking about bi-curious, in the condo next to the train to I can't believe it's not bi-curious, all of which seek to help the user avoid the stigma of dude on dude sex. That's a luxury and one that I don't begrudge folks.
But when you are fully bi male and you share your weekly conquests of men as a man, and you call that bi sex, that's ridiculous. There is no woman there. No matter how many women you slept with before the man, the mansex is still gay sex. Have the cojones to support the dudes you had sex with by calling what it is.
I couldnt care less what peoples sexual preferences are. Its their business not any of mine.Its also got nothing to do with preferring to sunbathe without clothes.
This was not about the individual choices. It's about the way rhetoric is used on the site and the relative number of members dealing with questions about their identity. The word use is problematic. This is all. Funnily enough, clearer use of language might actually help with reducing the number of threads on the topic that you seem perturbed by.
I am also well aware that the topic isn't naturism. You're going to note that the site has several non naturist threads and subjects. The discussion is clinical not erotic. I will of course endeavor to render future prose even more drab.
There's also a series of posts regarding basic knowledge and skills navigating the MSM world and of course the disastrous sexual health threads where factually incorrect information, bad assumptions and stigmatizing language coupled with advice offered with little to no actual lived experience or research and the elephant in the room is that the construction of an imaginary bisexual culture and locus separate from LGBTQ2 culture leads people to think that they are not part of LGBTQ2 culture or don't have to be, even though they are having MSM sex. The further assertion is that this space (which isn't real, it's the tunnel view of hookups had in various urban environments) is safer, less dangerous and a better place to meet for anonymous sex or a partner. It's also assumed to be a good way to avoid HIV.
In multiple cases I've had to correct misinformation and dangerous misinformation several times whilst folks who have no idea what they are on about assert false, harmful and incorrect information and advice. I know HIV, cruising, digital, bathhouse and club culture as well as the history and the public health strategies that are being used in public and private spaces LGBTQ2 identified. The knowledge is community specific. But the indulgence of the myth that there is a MSM or bi hookup network separate from LGBTQ2 institutions is causing false information to be held up as truth. What these spaces are is cruising or nebulous bathhouses, clubs that are promoting one thing on the surface but another in reality and internet chat. If all you're looking for is sex the risk is not great if you follow safer sex guidelines. But the myth is also that these spaces are more or less safe from HIV drugs crime etc. This is not true.
But the criticism is about deliberately erasing the same sex aspect of the activity, not that stigma exists (its a bit rich reminding someone who has experienced it in ways that most here haven't). Why is this an issue? Lack of definition, stigma and the insistence that the first category that has to go is gay (we never seem to get to the others so much) with a thin argument that sexuality is a spectrum of ones, a purely linguistic concept that is not in any way tied to real people or biology is not helping. Calling one aspect of a bisexual relationship straight and the other bi is not helping. The criticism is really quite gentle. I could have mentioned the not so good homophobia that crops up and the homophobia that is killing LGBTQ2 people around the world. We need more people to have the courage to move their goalposts, especially when they are being deliberately placed wrongly. My beef is the convolutions of the prefixes used. There's no other terminology used here with this strange reworking. Whether or not we erase the use of prefixes is not the point, they are used. And here the argument for one element of one prefix where it's the only place where relativistic non logical definition is being advanced (the others are more or less fixed meaning definitions) cannot hold any water.
I respect your views, but am not clear on where you're coming from. In a polarized world, I see bisexual as a category which people want to get rid of, not gay. I see that bi by definition includes both hetero and homosexual behavior. I'm not sure what you mean by moving goalposts, reworking prefixes or relativistic non logical definitions. I understand that homophobia endangers and kills people, and I imagine that by defining as bi, men can engage in the same homosexual activities, categorize it as something other than gay and jump on the gay bashing wagon. That's standard bigotry and hypocrisy, an equal opportunity hatred to protect the scorecard of anything deemed the "other".
One question: how do we better support each other as men, no sexual orientation strings attached?
I've always thought that "gay" described a lifestyle largely devoid of members of the opposite sex in your romantic life. Bi-sexual on the other hand, simply describes your enjoyment of engaging in sexual stimulation with another man or woman. Two completely different things in my book.
So if someone wants to describe their sexual encounters as 'bi' then that's their call, not anyone else's.
Exactly why should feel the need define someone elses sexual orientation or gender identity for them and why should it matter
So if someone wants to describe their sexual encounters as 'bi' then that's their call, not anyone else's.Exactly why should feel the need define someone elses sexual orientation or gender identity for them and why should it matter
It matters because you are giving them a needed reality check that could do the kindness of saving their health or even lives, while also maintaining respectful due to the blood, sweat, tears, and even lives of those who shouldered the burdens and cleared the paths that allow them to so freely explore and define themselves now.
Silence Equals Death remains one of the greatest slogans ever created and still holds true today.
1. It really isn't fair that some are allowed to perform a perpetual linguistic trick that allows them to indulge in the same behaviors that are indeed gay while never having to "pay their dues" for the privilege
- or rather THINKING they are exempt from any payment when the reality is
2. They may pay a tremendous price with their health or lives if they allow themselves to be fooled as they believe they are fooling others into thinking they are engaging in anything other than gay behavior and thus subject to the same physical pitfalls.
It matters because you are giving them a needed reality check that could do the kindness of saving their health or even lives, while also maintaining respectful due to the blood, sweat, tears, and even lives of those who shouldered the burdens and cleared the paths that allow them to so freely explore and define themselves now.They may pay a tremendous price with their health or lives if they allow themselves to be fooled as they believe they are fooling others into thinking they are engaging in anything other than gay behavior and thus subject to the same physical pitfalls.
I respect the idea of honoring pioneers and defenders of freedoms and rights that are easy to take for granted.
First you speak of paths that allow people to freely explore and define themselves. Then you speak of specific gay behaviors.
I am against hypocrisy, but I'm also against defining people, including myself and others, based on behaviors. There are usually a set of personality traits and a tribal affiliation with labels. I hold two passports and can call myself Swedish and American. I eat meatballs and herring and have that look, but consider Swedish-American as mixture of the worst of both cultures and don't like that label.
Is it wrong for a man to call himself homosexual but not gay? Are men who masturbate masturbators or normal men? Are those who try gay sex gay for that moment or gay for life? Can we disconnect sexual behaviors from sexual identities? Can risky behavior, whether sexual or vehicular, be identified as a behavior only? Can men and women be sexual beings and honor others as fellow sexual beings, all unique expressions of love, intimacy and sexuality? If so, how we can we honor them as such?
It matters because you are giving them a needed reality check that could do the kindness of saving their health or even lives, while also maintaining respectful due to the blood, sweat, tears, and even lives of those who shouldered the burdens and cleared the paths that allow them to so freely explore and define themselves now.They may pay a tremendous price with their health or lives if they allow themselves to be fooled as they believe they are fooling others into thinking they are engaging in anything other than gay behavior and thus subject to the same physical pitfalls.I respect the idea of honoring pioneers and defenders of freedoms and rights that are easy to take for granted.First you speak of paths that allow people to freely explore and define themselves. Then you speak of specific gay behaviors.I am against hypocrisy, but I'm also against defining people, including myself and others, based on behaviors. There are usually a set of personality traits and a tribal affiliation with labels. I hold two passports and can call myself Swedish and American. I eat meatballs and herring and have that look, but consider Swedish-American as mixture of the worst of both cultures and don't like that label.Is it wrong for a man to call himself homosexual but not gay? Are men who masturbate masturbators or normal men? Are those who try gay sex gay for that moment or gay for life? Can we disconnect sexual behaviors from sexual identities? Can risky behavior, whether sexual or vehicular, be identified as a behavior only? Can men and women be sexual beings and honor others as fellow sexual beings, all unique expressions of love, intimacy and sexuality? If so, how we can we honor them as such?
Look, I am all for the philosophical approach but the post isn't about your ideas it's about common usage of language and I should note that TN is not the only site, they just got the post. So what I want you to grasp is not only the historical but the present, and the way in which binaries are created, maintained and reinforced in our culture and subcultures. The deconstruction of the oppression of categoricals is certainly cool but there's far worse oppression left in the still institutional relegation of some bodies into the bad category and the bodies have the practices and the two are not easily extracted as one might feel is warranted. Human society is messy. Also, as long as the thing that is being erased is stigmatized it must be destigmatized before it is unnamed. You can't fix stigma which has no obvious referent it becomes slippery and hidden. I want to see men saying they have no issue with the guys who identify as gay and not make crude homophobic remarks in front of certain friends before they start claiming M4M sex as not gay and theirs in a way that isn't really defined just slippery. And while this sounds like I am ranting for me, it is for them. Of course everyone goes through their own time and path to growth, and yes, self define however you want but at the end of the day, we're not unicorns, lilies or wankel rotary engines as much as we might want to say so, and the point of the discussion is not to say "you there, don't do that" it's to say that language has impact and this seems to be the wrong way to handle this issue , which is homophobia and the fear of being called gay when you're looking for cock. No one should suffer that, but the best solution is not the one that has evolved, how do I know? Lived it.
I love the idea of honoring the being and the body and the spirit. Let me know when you find these leprechauns because I have been searching for them (I am being facetious, many of us are travelling and many wise travellers exist), and I would love to be able to share myself in a way I don't always get to because of the way of the world, but until then I gotta gay for a day or more, it's the label I chose to express a political stance and that is as attractive to some as it is not to others.
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