I just saw and read this thread and I can not stop laughing! Thanks so much for the good laugh. To be honest I am laughing at the insanity of this situation. I am also nude in the men's locker room, walk around nude, go into the shower nude, and sit in the sauna nude (on a towel). I have been given dirty looks by guys who will wrap a towel around themselves while they undress from street clothes into workout clothes and visa versa. The majority of guys will walk into the private shower stall fully dressed, close the curtain, and then get undressed and carefully reach outside of the stall without opening the curtain to put their clothes on the hook next to the stall. Heaven forbid someone see them nude. The steam room is also full of guys who are wearing clothes! Damn, how did it ever come to this when guys ( I assume ) are so paranoid about another guy seeing them nude (homophobia at work here?) that they just can not handle the situation.
BTW the female staff members who do come into the men's locker room (when I am the only one in there) seem to have no problem seeing me nude.
Too bad we cannot compare today with the world before You Tube. It seems that there are plenty of people, younger adults, who have taken to playing strip naked games such as tennis, or golf, poker or Twister. These are situations that when I was of that age, none of us would have thought to be in let alone record them. I think that I am seeing more nudity now than in the 60's and 70's but I must confess that It is all on video.
Let everybody live their lives and make their choices. There is nothing wrong. Same as there is nothing wrong to be naked in a locker room or sauna.
Rafael you make a good point. Instead of people judging one another, we can just acknowledge that we may have a naked penis in the gym sauna while others have naked sweatpants, high tops and electronics. Maybe we don't understand one another, but we can all enjoy a good sweat.
Let everybody live their lives and make their choices. There is nothing wrong. Same as there is nothing wrong to be naked in a locker room or sauna.Rafael you make a good point. Instead of people judging one another, we can just acknowledge that we may have a naked penis in the gym sauna while others have naked sweatpants, high tops and electronics. Maybe we don't understand one another, but we can all enjoy a good sweat.Exactly, this world need less judgment and more understanding. Let people live. We all are different and we come from different backgrounds. Even people from the same country is still different but there is space for everybody.
Can't disagree with that. However, those who keep nudity in a locker room to a minimum are often judgmental about those who don't.
Expecting to change your clothes in a public space with others and not be nude or see other nude people is not reason. It's not "imposing" to point that out, it's a statement of basic fact. And that expectation (let's be very clear that almost no one has this as an expectation rather many men suffer from varying degrees of discomfort and shame in this setting) is always the more unreasonable and when expressed in terms of desiring for regulation and inhibition or interdictions to make it impossible to see other nude men or be seen nude publicly instead of just using a private change room or toilet stall is the very definition of "imposing" on others. And this is coming from someone who had deep anxiety and trouble with it for many years. What's undeniable is that getting over it has never in my experience and in the thousands of discussions on the topic I've had now over a lifetime of activism and involvement in the various facets of men's health nudism and naturism resulted in anyone having a negative outcome. Every. Single. Man. Feels. Better. By a landslide and far and away. Not counting or including those who have not or cannot get past it... it's legitimate to be where you are in life and not my place to tell someone else they HAVE to. I will definitely say that they should try to and get support to help with growing and getting free as a general bit of advice if asked for my opinion and experience... but it's still up to them and not me. That said I won't be not nude in the change rooms or showers or lockers as I am going about my businesses and enjoying my time exercising relaxing and healing and if that offends someone that's their issue and they should consider that they are incapable of functioning in this space as a contributing or at very least non disruptive member of a community. If that's the case seek accommodation in time of entry and exit, a special hour every other day or best of all privacy in individual change and shower areas. If there are none... request it... instead of demanding everyone else accommodate. I will even join in advocating for a few single use roomettes and most others would too if it means peace quiet and no drama about naked bodies.
Yes, and Ive been nude many time in that situation, but Ive never used those places to be a nudist.Thats the difference, Im nude among people who are not nudist. I wouldnt want the non nudist think Im weird.In a gym, I get changed,.I dont walk around with my dick flopping around, hoping t gets noticed.
Private men's clubs still have completely nude gyms saunas lounges and pools. There are only a few left for a variety of reasons but the biggest one is that admission is very limited and money isn't a guarantee of admission just a prerequisite. There have also been gender based challenges to open up all male clubs to women based not on exclusion by gender but because they don't have access to the opportunities of business and financial advantages these clubs are essentially there to provide for a very established segment of society. This challenge has been the more successful and it effectively closes the health and relaxation men's clubs and replaces them with a social club fraught with sex and gender dynamics that are partly the reason for the segregated clubs in the first place.
Of course they are horribly classist sexist racist etc because they cater to a very established and conservative segment of society but the point is what the space offers to members that's essential irreplaceable and necessary. The easiest way to tell that this is actually the case is to see how in the US, 3000 years of common folks bathing nude together and washing each other or being washed and exercising nude (this is a universal social primate function) was essentially ended and made verboten socially in less than 100 years. Three generations. From my father's generation to mine, then to the next. The anthropology is undeniable... if you're not a solitary primate species you do this... and we're definitely social primates. This cultural practice exists or existed in every age and in every country and culture... ever. Until now. The reason for the shift is undeniably demographic but also because those in power have recognized long ago as labour movements grew and wealth began to distribute to a large middle class and wealthier and healthier working class that political and economic power were slipping away from the elites and they immediately understood that part of regaining control and maintaining disproportionate power was to deny through a whole host of means the advantages modern industrial culture... the true advantages it conferred on everyone who participated. Whenever the ultra rich keep for themselves that which they deny you... you have to ask why?
And people invariably say but they didn't there were just changes in how we lived and what technology was able to deliver to us and social change and times are different now. And assuredly that's what it seems like and feels like. But from the arrival of the private bathrooms and overly large suburban homes designed for investment and automobiles not people and the explosion of personal credit that made it possible (to the point that they gave home mortgages to people who had no jobs or equity JUST to collapse the system), the turning of the sexual revolution and civil rights movement towards identity politics and partisanship (Rand Corporation and the US federal government initiative). The goal of feminism wasn't to have both men and women working 60 hours a week to not afford their mortgage and only able to raise one kid. The goal of the civil rights movement wasn't to get a larger Black wealthy middle class and billionaire African Americans. The goal of nudism and naturism wasn't to turn gyms into exhibitionist eroticist pageant spaces. The goal of labour wasn't to get absurdly well paid jobs so well protected that the workers didn't need to show up in some cases. The goal of all these movements was emancipation and empowerment for ALL. Not at the expense of the guy or gal next to you... but by keeping the ratio between the average earner and the wealthiest earner in a decent range... for women that meant the right to work and for equal pay. For Black people the same... and to have the same opportunity for education finance and advancement politically as others . For nudist culture the right to share openly with others the lack of fear and social bonds that are genetically encoded by selection as things that we benefit from overwhelmingly and for all the end of stigma and fear of oppression and oppression overt and covert.
Partisanship is artificial and the reason we have left and right is... the first democratic congress in Europe during modernity (post Renaissance/Enlightenment onward) was the French Revolutionary Assembly... and they couldn't use churches or palaces or existing buildings of the monarchy as the People's Assembly... but where do you put that body... necessarily larger than the kings privy council, lords or cabinet when it's brand new and no such buildings exist yet? They settled on the tennis courts of Louis XIV at Versailles. Not religious or a room of the autocracy of the monarchy... a dirt floored arena with two flanking sets of staggered seating... on the left side... and the right side. Those parties who sat to the right were more conservative and those to the left more liberal (in 18th century French Revolutionary terms, like Republicans were once the abolitionists and Democrats the less fervently so what's socially right or left has changed often and according to chance and direction/power plays.
Why is this important? Because it is used to keep us nattering away at each other based on identity politics alone with one "side" saying that they represent authenticity and the other side representing chaos, none of which is true especially at the level of the individual citizen, and how much more is the other or the opposite person in the whim of the day unintelligible and inscrutable if they're clothed? How much easier is it to read into their costume and differences between their ways and yours and see for example a scarf on one as a threat but on another a sign of respect? The precise reason the powerful would socialize and bond nude was to radically equalize each other. Necessarily so when so many towering personalities and their mythologies are all in play in group dynamics... limiting those imposing and threatening barriers by making every man or woman or person equal to another and vulnerable and exposed has exactly the opposite effect... it makes the group stronger and more cohesive and reduces conflict. In all social primates.
You don't have to like it. No one does. But I would ask myself seriously if it's really that we don't like it by nature or rather if we're being conditioned to. And if the latter is the case... is that something that any of us wants to support... and if so, why?
Wow! I wonder what brought about that change.This morning, there was a young male, about upper 20s who has been on the same aisle as me in the locker room during the mornings for months. He has been a strict towel dancer as some put it for months.This morning when he came to the aisle, without saying anything, for the first time, he stripped naked at his locker and walked to the shower naked and carrying his towel.He did not say anything about it and neither did anyone else.
That's pretty dramatic.
Oh, absolutely and without question.I prefer to act like nothing has changed until he brings it up.
Nonetheless, I would REALLY want to ask him about it. But I don't think there's really any way of bringing it up without sounding like a perv.
In all likelihood, no matter what you say, it's going to sound like, "Wow, I've really been enjoying watching your cock flop around as you walk to and from the shower and towel off."
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