Fair Warning...This is a Rant
Actually the person I wrote this for is no longer among us. Between the time I read their post, got all bent over it and composed this reply, the post went missing along with the person. Poof! Gonejust like that. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust Man is like a breath; his days are like a fleeting shadowand all that. AnywaysI admit itI need to vent so Im posting what I wrote anyway because I think it will do us all some good to considerit.
Im sorry that the person felt this site was falling so short of their expectations. They seemed genuinely dissatisfied with it, especially with regards to the images that some have posted. While I tried to sympathize with them and understand why they felt that way based on what they shared in the post, I actually couldnt agree with their negative opinion about this site on a number of levels.
I cant speak to what the site was like six months ago, since Ive only myself been a member a little over a month. But I can tell you that at least from my perspective the site has only improved over that period of time. Are there things I wish were different? Yes, of course. Especially when you care about something it is only natural I think to observe flaws and areas that you wish were better. But I think the site has improved because in the past month lots of nice people who embrace wholesome, non-erotic, non-sexual nudity have joined the site and there were alreadymany members here who I now consider real friends in spite of the fact that I know them only from the words and thoughts they graciously share.
I think it possible I have used this analogy before but Im getting old and cant remember for certain, so please bear with me if Im repeating myself. But the analogy is a good one I think and one that really gets to the heart of this issue and so perhaps if Ive used it before, its worth repeating. Think about this site as a shopping mall. Shopping malls are typically classified as private property that are open to public access. The owners or their representatives can run anybody they choose off that property. People sometimes have a lot of trouble grasping that concept. You open up a place to public access, and all of the sudden people somehow get the silly idea that they have a right to be there.
Privileges vs. rights...I'm always amazed by how much trouble people have grasping these very simple concepts. You have a right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. You don't have a right to access private property even if all your friends are there. If you are a citizen and over 18, you have a whole boatload of rights, but the last time I checked no place in the constitution of these United States, or any other nation that I can bring to mind, has anybody ever been guaranteed any right to access private property without the consent of the owner.
Some people here complain that TT1 is censoring harmless nudist content when he refuses to allow photographs they upload to be posted. Others complain that he allows blatant sexually explicit photographs to be posted here. Lately, at least to me it seems too many people have had their mouse poised above the flag button just waiting for the chance to pull the trigger, almost like Dirty Harry saying, Cmon punk make my day! Personally, I'm having more than a little trouble sympathizing with either group. Are people honestly shocked when their crotch shot photographs get rejected? Are they honestly shocked that every person on the planet has different standards of what they find offensive and that their own sense of what is proper and improper might differ from others and from the standards of the person who decides what photographs are acceptable here and which are not? The US Supreme Court cant even come to substantial agreement on what constitutes pornography and what constitutes protected speech.
Just think of it like this. We're in the mall. The way I see it the whining and the moaning about the propriety or impropriety of the images posted on this site is just another symptom of the crazy sense of entitlement that sometimes takes hold in any Internet community. We go from discussing simple non-sexual nudity in a welcoming environment where everything and everyone seems rational to somehow having a complete break from reality, and it all becomesso very political. Suddenly we have a RIGHT to kick out anyone here who disagrees with us or offends us. We have a RIGHT to decide what photographs are proper and which are not. We have a RIGHT to FORCE our fellow members to confront our nude bodies in any imaginable position we want to display them, replete with genital jewelry and cock rings if it suits us. Gradually we begin to believe that we have a RIGHT to make our own rules if the rules of the site dont suit us.
Here is the reality of it. The vast majority of members on this site are fabulous people who really get it when it comes to what naturism is really all about. But sites like this attract people who dont get it. This might shock some of you but believe it or not, there are more than a few members here who are voyeurs andjust as many who are exhibitionists. I know this factually from experience. Shortly after I joined I got repetitive private messages from one male member that were lewd, inappropriate and harassing. What did I do? I ignored himafter the first coupleDelete! Delete! Delete anytime I had a message from him in my box. Well guess what, he isnt here anymore and I didnt flag him, I didnt run to Team True1 and complainI just ignored him and he went away. See the system does actually work. Those kinds of people actually weed themselves out. As far as photographs, I couldn't give a rip what anyone here posts. Im not here to look at photographs. The only photographs I see on a routine basis is a persons profile picture if its public and the gallery thing that is on the home page. Okay, Ill be honest, I do look at tcottas photographs pretty often but she is my pal and seeing her smile makes me smile. So Im not apologizing for that! LOL Im here to learn, to socialize and hopefully make some friends among people who care about some of the same things I have learned to care about. If I find a picture offensive, I dont look at. Simple! Problem solved!
Again, maybe I just dont understand as much as I think I do or maybe Im just a jerk, but True Team1 by way of this site is offering a free service to the public. Make no mistake however that it is still private property. Just like the mythical shopping mall Im using as an analogy, PRIVATE PROPERTY open to public access. About the closest thing any of us have to a RIGHT around here is the RIGHT to comply with his terms of service if we want to continue to take advantage of the privilege afforded to us by way of this service. Instead of crying about the decisions he makes that he makes in his interest and I think with the best interests of this site in mind, just say thanks for the free ride. Or if you find the situation to be so untenable then move on as some have already done. This isn't a vast conspiracy to deny someone their civil liberties. It is just reality. Its just common sense. We dont all see things including nudism in the same way. Can you name one thing in life we all see the same way? Yes, I agree we should be responsible and when we see someone behaving or conducting themselves in an inappropriate way, contrary to the core values of real naturism, we do have an obligation to speak up for what is right. I get that! This is a self-policing site and Team True1 encourages that so we have a responsibility to point out to them firmly, in the most polite way we can muster what they are doing that is unacceptable ONCE. If they dont listen and accept it in the spiritintended then just report them and wash your hands of it. Team True1 has impressed me from the beginning that he is more than capable of effectively addressing the hard heads who wont listen.
Before finding TN, I joined two other nudist social networking sites. I can tell you from experience that both of them were far worse and far more sexualized than anyone could ever imagine this site to be. This is the cleanest, most well run and sociable site Ive ever had the privilege to be a part of. I cancelled my account at the first site I joined after three days because there were no topics in the forums that werent about sex. I posted one profile picture which was a requirement to join and in 3 days I had more than 14 lewd comments on the photograph from other male members even though my profile clearly stated my orientation. The second site, actually quite similar in format to this one, also tries to keep it non-erotic and non-sexual which doesnt suit hardly anyone there and so there is constant turmoil and bickering. I rarely bother to log in there anymore and if I could automatically cancel my account I would have already done so. I just havent got around to writing an email to the administrators to request it.
Life is pretty much what we make of it and our perspectives are usually our reality. So if we want to see this site in negative terms then to us it is going to be a big negative and we arent going to be happy. So I hope we will all try and see things in a more positive light. Usually when Im positive about something its positive in return. If not, there are plenty more nudist sites out there and so I see no reason why anyone would want to stay here and feel miserable. All you got to do is ask yourself, Do I feel lucky? Me, Im taking my own advice. Team True1, thank you for allowing me to be a part of your wonderful web site. Participating here gives me lots of enjoyment and has allowed me to meet some fabulous people and I sincerely appreciate you allowing me that opportunity. I honestly have never received so much value for something that costs absolutely nothing. You are a true friend of naturists and I know I havent made a donation since joining because Im basically too lazy to look into how Pay Pal works, but I promise Im going get that figured it.
As mentioned the person who inspired this is gone. Either they bailed or they got booted. Either way I think it was for the best. I've loved this site and many of the people here from the day I got here and that is how I want other new people to see the site when they find it. Is that asking too much? Cheers.
I wish everyone who ranted posted so eloquently.
I have been a member here for overnine months and have seen the continued improvement. I have seen where members had questions or concerns and the admin addressed the issues very appropriately. it is amazing that all this has been done with a membership that has gown from around 700 to over 10,000. I have made a lot of great friends here. I have met some in person already and other are strickly email and chat friends.
Your stetements about right vs privalege are so true. I wils to thank the admain again for th privalege of being on this site. We don't even have to pay to be members here, it is my choice to donate to help fund the site.
Thomas
I have already posted this quote on another thread but here it is again:-
"Those who would seek the gift of tolerance for their own chosen way must first bestow the gift of tolerance upon the ways of others" Lao-Tse (Taoist)
Overall very good post nuderunr and, with the exception of your generalisation regarding "voyeurs and exhibitionists" I agree with what you have said. (I do have some observations regarding your post "Arent all naturists/nudists voyeurs and exhibitionists?" but that will have to wait until after the weekend as we are away having fun!).
Paragraph 6 of your post on this thread I found particularly apposite and bang on target. TT1 has created a great site here, the site rules as they stand are straightforward and elegantly simple - one of the marks of a successful group. I for one always find it slightly disturbing when folk take a simple system that works and seek to complicate it by adding non existant self serving unofficial 'amendments' essentally based on personal taste. Rules are for personal guidance - not a stick with which to belabour ones neigbour with.
Love n stuff
Rudie xx
Well said Nuderunr, I wish I could rant like you. lol...But seriously, I agree with everything you've said and there's not much to really add to it.
Like you, I was in the middle of my own post when they got the boot (and I'm willing to bet that's what happend). I had seen the post earlier and ignored it, then changed my mind. I won't post what I typed (mainly because I can't remember lol) because what I said was extremely inflamitory. I was once like you, patient with posters and trying to point out a better, less negative way to complain, but after years of shit and abuse I'm a little more....cynical about the whole thing. So, my rant was a true rant and basically telling the poster what I thought of them. lol...Was that the right thing, probably not, but to tell you the truth, even though my post never saw the light of day and I'm normally pretty upset when threads disappear, I felt 100% better typing what I did. I probably would've had a lot of crap to deal with if my post actually went through, so in that I'm glad it never got posted. Hehe...Maybe that's what I'll do from now own when I get po'd with someone. Type a horrific and insulting post then hit delete instead of send. Sometimes you just feel better seeing the words.
Anyways, rambling as I tend to do. This is a fantastic site and it's not only because of TT1, but because of the wonderful community we have here. Everybody should be giving themselves a pat on the back.
Thanks for a good positive approach to the subject. Its always amazed me when people stumble across this place and two days after they join start making inflammatory comments about the membership, ownership, and operation of the site, demanding that people conform to their way of thinking as if they are somehow entitled to do so. As you pointed out with your shopping mall analogy, there is one owner and they can do with the property as they choose. We as patrons have the option to leave if we dont like the way the place is run.
As a huge anti-censorship advocate and supporter of free speech I believe that everyone is entitled to their opinion and that its great when they voice them in the appropriate venues. The key phrase there is appropriate venue. Starting up 20 different threads every time they see something they feel is inappropriate and starting flame wars in every other thread is certainly not appropriate.
I dont want to drag up old issues or reopen any healed over wounds here but this is not the first time this sort of thing has happened here and Im sure it wont be the last. Back around the time of the original start up of the site there was a group of folks who decided that this would be a great place to espouse their religious beliefs and, boy did the debates ever get heated. In the long run everyone found their appropriate niche and learned to live with one another. As UKrudegirl likes to point out in not so many words, if you expect tolerance from others you have to have it yourself. Unfortunately this idea is lost on a great deal of folks around here from time to time.
This an extremely well written post, not sure about the title, as if this constitutes a rant, then please rant on. Like you, we have been members of a few other nudist sites, and without re-ranting, agree totally with what you are saying. this "rant" needs to be perhaps scaled down, but part of the signing up part of the site so that people will understand what they are actually getting here.
Once again, thank you, well done.
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