Domination
Hi all just to start by saying I'm brand new to this so I could be very much wrong. So the few occasions me and my wife have gone to the nudist beach and since joining this site naturism seems to be very male orientated. So the few times we've been to the local naturist beach although there's women there id say it's a ratio of about 20:1 in terms of men and women and joining this site there seems to be a handful of women compared to 1000s of guys, why is that. Is it that women are alot more reserved than men in the way they go about it or is there just alot less women who enjoy the lifestyle.
This is a perennial subject in the nudist community and while I don't believe any study has been done on a large scale, I believe some have looked at this as part of their psychology studies. From what I understand of this is that its largely social conditioning in the first instance that leads to this male domination of the community.
The piece that I would add though is that here in Australia there is an increasing trend for women to feel unsafe even in a clothed environment. And that's not without good reason when you look at the data on gendered violence and sexual assault.
So no doubt being nude, when we feel the most vulnerable (but also the most free or unconstrained) is a state that many women actively avoid. My wife tells me specifically that this is her issue and that she would be far more comfortable where the males do not out number the females so significantly.
I think I've settled on the conclusion that most young women are happy to go with skimpy fashion as long as it's the fashion. Thong bottoms are in even as tops seem to be more substantial than the classic string-halter triangle top. I happened upon a docu-advertorial about Sydney in the mid 1980s the other day which featured Bondi babes happily frolicing in the water topless, which is certainly less common now. There is still a jump (in their mind) between skimpy - no matter how different to fashions even a few years ago - and totally nude.
Back to the original post, I think what I wrote in above feeds into the situation. Women, for whatever reason, are more likely to baulk at going fully nude. Perhaps it's the shyness, perhaps concern about unwanted attention, perhaps more-fundamental security concerns. There are plenty of examples on these pages where wives are definitely more cautious than their husbands. I guess it all adds up to that disparity, whether it is 1-in-20 as estimated above, 1-in-10 as I commonly see (and I have a habit of doing a count whenever I visit Sunnyside North).
What can be done? That's the hard part. I love when there's a better balance and have never noticed females looking like they're getting attention they don't want. I certainly try not to add to any feelings of discomfort, but it's not just up to me. I hope that others can also be gentlemen in the presence of those ladies, but fear that increasing security concerns in the western cultures shall make things worse rather than better.
On my first trip to a clothing optional beach, the number of women far outnumbered the men. That was just a snapshot of a particular day. I saw that guys tended to be there alone and the women came in groups. Some wore tops and bottoms, others just bottoms, and some were nude. There were also a few with a male companion, and almost nobody, male or female, looked like they were even close to retirement age.
I think I've settled on the conclusion that most young women are happy to go with skimpy fashion as long as it's the fashion. Thong bottoms are in even as tops seem to be more substantial than the classic string-halter triangle top. I happened upon a docu-advertorial about Sydney in the mid 1980s the other day which featured Bondi babes happily frolicing in the water topless, which is certainly less common now. There is still a jump (in their mind) between skimpy - no matter how different to fashions even a few years ago - and totally nude.Back to the original post, I think what I wrote in above feeds into the situation. Women, for whatever reason, are more likely to baulk at going fully nude. Perhaps it's the shyness, perhaps concern about unwanted attention, perhaps more-fundamental security concerns. There are plenty of examples on these pages where wives are definitely more cautious than their husbands. I guess it all adds up to that disparity, whether it is 1-in-20 as estimated above, 1-in-10 as I commonly see (and I have a habit of doing a count whenever I visit Sunnyside North).What can be done? That's the hard part. I love when there's a better balance and have never noticed females looking like they're getting attention they don't want. I certainly try not to add to any feelings of discomfort, but it's not just up to me. I hope that others can also be gentlemen in the presence of those ladies, but fear that increasing security concerns in the western cultures shall make things worse rather than better.
I completely agree - in the 1980's and early 1990's even in Sydney there were at least 30% of the women topless, albeit diminishing to the latter of this period, at the beaches I attended. One of my closest friends would always be topless with us when went as a group to the beach.
My observation is the topless 'trend' started to diminish around the same time that big breasts fell out of fashion and after a decade of the waif super models with very little breasts...you'd think that promote the opposite though.
Completely agree to - that its us to us men folk to make women feel more comfortable in any setting not just the beach if we want for them to have far greater participation in the nude community
Certainly men outnumber women at most of the nudist venues I've been to here on the US west coast, although not so much so in the resorts. There, the ratio of men to women is 5:1 or 5:2, except for special events, where the ratio is 5:3 or 5:4.
Curiously, women seem to be more influential in the organizations that foster nudism. I have a friend who was running for President of AANR, but told me that since he was running against a woman, he felt that he was at a disadvantage. This might have been a sentiment that more women would embrace nudism if they felt that men weren't running the show.
My own opinion is that women are more reluctant to become nudists for two reasons:
First, they're more susceptible to sexual harassment and assault then men are, and they feel that their nudity might be taken as an invitation for guys to hit on them. They are therefore more sensitive to people invading their personal space.
Australia may have more of a problem with this. On my first visit there in the mid 1990s, I saw an advertisement on a bus that showed a silhouette of five or six men that said "These men don't think it's a problem that men beat their wives" followed by a silhouette of one man that said "This man does." Then there was a number to an anti-violence hot line. I found it striking that this level of violence against women might have risen to the level of a crisis that called for a public campaign.)
Second, women have always been held to higher standards than men when it comes to body image. They recognize more acutely that their figures don't match the ideal ones they see in movies, TV, and advertisements. Society has drilled it into them that they must not have thick waistlines or sagging breasts, and even provides underwear that disguises these "problems." Men have rarely been so concerned about such comparisons to ideal body images. So a woman going nude is a more fundamental act of defiance than it is for a man.
I personally see the negative association that women have with nudism as the dark shadow of modern feminism.
First, there's a double standard that women should accept sexual objectification for power, while also holdling bitterness when those standards are used against them. I prefer the attitude of women like Bonnie Raitt who never tried to be sexy in her youth because her music was too important, and several decades later she's still amazing as an artist and a woman.
Second, I recognize that women are vulnerable to sexual assault by men. However women often seem to be women's worst critics. As a result, they often choose to 'dress defensively' to avoid the aggression of other women in the form of social exclusion and reputation-damaging gossip.
The potential for verbal assault against women is strong coming from both men and women, directly and indirectly. It's easier for men to be naked in public and find no one really cares.
The official message from naturist organisations is one of relaxation, health, freedom and an almost spiritual connection with nature. While all of that is true. You would have to be very naive to not see that some sexual element still exists within a sizeable section of naturism and nudism participants. Perhaps males are generally more tolerant or less bothered by voyeurs. I can understand how many women could feel self conscious, or even intimidated, in a place where they are subject to unwanted attention by male strangers. When all they wanted was to be outdoors and relax.
The official message from naturist organisations is one of relaxation, health, freedom and an almost spiritual connection with nature. While all of that is true. You would have to be very naive to not see that some sexual element still exists within a sizeable section of naturism and nudism participants. Perhaps males are generally more tolerant or less bothered by voyeurs. I can understand how many women could feel self conscious, or even intimidated, in a place where they are subject to unwanted attention by male strangers. When all they wanted was to be outdoors and relax.
You would have to be very naive to not see that some sexual element still exists within a sizeable section of naturism and nudism participants.
That is because we're living in a society where nudity=sex, and is used to arouse people and get them to buy a product or sell a television series or movie. That's what we bring to a nude environment, especially when we're starting out and trying to wean ourselves away from that Pavlovian response. But the more you're around nude people, the less aroused you are.
In fact, I read somewhere that pornographers are very concerned about any upsurge in public nudity and nudism, because the more de-sensitized a man is about nudity, the less likely he is to buy their product. I think there's some truth in that.
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