True, the data are incomplete, which means they understate the death toll. I did not cite the number since Sandy Hook (although that data set I drew from includes deaths back to then) but the deaths since the February 13 incident you cited. I checked the original news sources for just a couple of those, which proved to be deaths of people who weren't "bad guys", thereby outnumbering your example. I also trust your data sources - Guns & Ammo, for sure, and likely Fox News, unless I miss my guess - to have scoured the same news sources for any "saving of the innocents" scenarios.
We all die. Any death is to be regretted. And I would say that's it's better to die on your best behavior, rather than in the course of a criminal act. So - simply speaking personally, since your original question about gratitude was an essentially personal one - I'd feel compassion for the person who died in what was likely one of his most sinful / least mindful (pick your religion) moments.
As a gesture of neighborly cooperation, we invited our neighbor to use our place and our stone-wall fence as cover for his shooting. So no, I don't condemn him. I just have another way of dealing with it.
True, the data are incomplete, which means they understate the death toll. I did not cite the number since Sandy Hook (although that data set I drew from includes deaths back to then) but the deaths since the February 13 incident you cited. I checked the original news sources for just a couple of those, which proved to be deaths of people who weren't "bad guys", thereby outnumbering your example. I also trust your data sources - Guns & Ammo, for sure, and likely Fox News, unless I miss my guess - to have scoured the same news sources for any "saving of the innocents" scenarios.We all die. Any death is to be regretted. And I would say that's it's better to die on your best behavior, rather than in the course of a criminal act. So - simply speaking personally, since your original question about gratitude was an essentially personal one - I'd feel compassion for the person who died in what was likely one of his most sinful / least mindful (pick your religion) moments.As a gesture of neighborly cooperation, we invited our neighbor to use our place and our stone-wall fence as cover for his shooting. So no, I don't condemn him. I just have another way of dealing with it.
I believe the "Data is incomplete" would mean that the circumstances behind the deaths were not known or not given. This makes the story irrelevant because the utopian wish of no guns no crime is impossible period.
True, the data are incomplete, which means they understate the death toll. I did not cite the number since Sandy Hook (although that data set I drew from includes deaths back to then) but the deaths since the February 13 incident you cited. I checked the original news sources for just a couple of those, which proved to be deaths of people who weren't "bad guys", thereby outnumbering your example. I also trust your data sources - Guns & Ammo, for sure, and likely Fox News, unless I miss my guess - to have scoured the same news sources for any "saving of the innocents" scenarios.We all die. Any death is to be regretted. And I would say that's it's better to die on your best behavior, rather than in the course of a criminal act. So - simply speaking personally, since your original question about gratitude was an essentially personal one - I'd feel compassion for the person who died in what was likely one of his most sinful / least mindful (pick your religion) moments.As a gesture of neighborly cooperation, we invited our neighbor to use our place and our stone-wall fence as cover for his shooting. So no, I don't condemn him. I just have another way of dealing with it.
I believe the "Data is incomplete" would mean that the circumstances behind the deaths were not known or not given. This makes the story irrelevant because the utopian wish of no guns no crime is impossible period.
"Kumbaya!!! Let me guess, You are Anti-Death Penalty but Pro-Abortion right?"
Really? Not snarky? Not mocking and making assumptions that have nothing to do with the subject? Seems very troll-like to me. As for Gassy, well, he's just a joke. I'm a progressive, but I certainly don't want a gun, so he is lying again.
We now have over 16 pages of drivel that completely misses the point of my original post. My original post reads:
I believe that the things happening today in Washington is the start of a long slide into losing our republic. The Constitution is the framework of our republic and BHO wants to chip away at that. If he succeeds in repudiating our rights under the second amendment, what will his next target be? Will we no longer be secure in our homes, papers and personal effects? Will we not be able to peacefully assemble? Will we need to be wary of what we say and who we say it to? Can we be arrested and imprisoned without due process?
If he succeeds in this one thing, we will no longer have a republic but a dictatorship, or government by the elite. Many people have sacrificed their lives and fortunes to retain the republic and I believe there are many out there who would still be willing to stand up to protect those rights. BHO has not just attempted to throw out a part of the Constitution. I believe he has also sown the seeds of a revolution.
May God bless and preserve the United States of America.
I tried to explain it further in Post 133 where I said.
For those who study the Constitution it is important to read The Federalist Papers. These are the writings and thoughts of the framers of the Constitution and what was their intent for each article. They were breaking away from a very tyrannical type of government and they wanted to make sure that this did not happen again. They therefore wanted the people to be able to defend themselves against a dictatorial overthrow BY THE GOVERNMENT. This is, in a nut shell, the reason behind the Second Amendment.
If you look back over history you'll see many examples where a despot comes into power, by what ever means, and one of the first orders of business is to disarm the populace. You can find many examples of this at jpfo.org .
Gun rights is not the issue here. Freedom is the issue. What we are discussing is our American way of life and if we will continue to keep it and have it in the future.
Really? Do you think that your guns are going to be taken away? You would have to be mentally ill to think that. It's not or never going to happen. You love your guns more than your children. Let's be realistic. When you are quoting "Guns and Ammo" magazine, you know what the lay of the land is. Yes, the U.S. is a paradise. Everyone wants to be there. Yes indeed.
The American Way of Life, including the world's highest per-capita gun ownership rate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country) is not in jeopardy.
You speak of Obama as if he were all-powerful (and as if you knew his mind.) If you are among the 47% of US adults who live in a gun-owning household, is he, personally, going to come to your door to take the gun away? Who, then? The Phoenix police? Maricopa County Sherriff? Arizona State Troopers? The US military? None of them. Not even close.
I like guns less that most of the other Americans on this thread, but my only argument has been that keeping a gun around may not be such a good idea, not that they (who?) should take them away. I'm not going to vote for a government authoritarian enough to, somehow, contrive a force sufficient to go door-to-door seizing guns. Nor are you. Who are the voters you're afraid of? Certainly none of them have appeared in this forum. Even 40% of Democrats say they own guns!
My personal hope is that the American gun culture that sees guns as a political weapon and problem-solving tool, will change, not that the government will conduct a revolution from above. There is no real constituency for the loss-of-republic outcome you fear.
The force you're talking about, Gasman, isn't even armed, and includes volunteers in a wide variety of roles, in a wide variety of agencies. Here's a link that gives the actual speech from which the relevant scare quotes were pulled.
I share your concern for civil liberties, and vigilance is needed. But things have been way worse - under Presidents Adams, Wilson, Nixon, and arguably FDR (especially if you were Japanese).
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