What the hell happened?
It's a shame that today's YMCA can't set asideONE EVENING AMONTH for nudist men to skinny-dip in the pool! Why has the U.S. (for example) reverted to such restrictive, paranoid,conservative thinking? I would say they've gone back in time....but if they had, even in the old days us guys could simply go skinny-dip there!!! It has to have something to do with the word "Christian" in YMCA ! For Pete's Sake....the old, backward,crotchetyfuddy-duddys need to loosen up and not be such Victorianwet blankets!
"Why has the U.S. (for example) reverted to such restrictive, paranoid,conservative thinking?" Well first of all, it's the Conservative thinking that allowed skinny-dipping in the Y.M.C.A.By the 1960's& 70's, (Way beyond Victorian times)women were first allowed to co-swim at the YMCA. (Modesty between genders was called for)Also, mothers were complaining about their sons swimming naked. "I would say they've gone back in time....but if they had, even in the old days us guys could simply go skinny-dip there!!!"Correct, the old days segregated nudity was part of the western culture. "It has to have something to do with the word "Christian" in YMCA ! For Pete's Sake....the old, backward,crotchetyfuddy-duddys need to loosen up and not be such Victorianwet blankets!" It was nothing to do with the word Christian. It has to do with allowing coed use of the YMCA. Like I said before, the idea of stopping nude swimming in the YMCA and Schools, is because of females. It's not Victorian thinking to be modest while swimming in the USA.
For more information on the History of Christianity and Nudity: https://gasguys.wordpress.com/time-line/
"Why has the U.S. (for example) reverted to such restrictive, paranoid,conservative thinking?" Well first of all, it's the Conservative thinking that allowed skinny-dipping in the Y.M.C.A.By the 1960's& 70's, (Way beyond Victorian times)women were first allowed to co-swim at the YMCA. (Modesty between genders was called for)Also, mothers were complaining about their sons swimming naked. "I would say they've gone back in time....but if they had, even in the old days us guys could simply go skinny-dip there!!!"Correct, the old days segregated nudity was part of the western culture. "It has to have something to do with the word "Christian" in YMCA ! For Pete's Sake....the old, backward,crotchetyfuddy-duddys need to loosen up and not be such Victorianwet blankets!" It was nothing to do with the word Christian. It has to do with allowing coed use of the YMCA. Like I said before, the idea of stopping nude swimming in the YMCA and Schools, is because of females. It's not Victorian thinking to be modest while swimming in the USA. For more information on the History of Christianity and Nudity: https://gasguys.wordpress.com/time-line/
Thanks sir Narnian for setting the record straight. Obviously the Young Men's Christian Association had no problem with nudity as they were the biggest promoters of it via indoor nude swimming, nude open showers, etc; THEN the Feminists came around and drove the "MEN" only out of a christian organizations way of life that had been that way at the Y, and most of society, for over a hundred years and in general for thousands of years. They did it by Lawsuits demanding """EQUAL rights""" which of course is a farce since they dont apply the same standard to the YFCA. They are segregated. But the men in society wont stand up for their rights and demand seperate but equal which is permitted. There's no reason the Y's cant have nude male swim days as long as they have nude female nude days. And the whole reason the Y and all other groups coward-ed out of maintaining the male only standard...follow the MONEY.. lawsuits by feminists organizations like the United Way. They gave the Y and others millions of dollars a year....but then threatened to take it all away if they didn't cow tow to their demands of letting women have full use of the facility, equal employment(so they can change the future policies) etc. For more information on the Christianities view of nudism, check out the Figleaf forum at https://www.figleafforum.com/articles_bible_nakedness.html
SirNarnian....thanks for the heads-up on the History of Christianity and Nudity ! I will check it out. I suppose the encroachment of women into the YMCA picture has had a bigimpact for sure in morerecent times. However, it would seem to methat the influence of long-standingreligious conservatism plays a role as well. The initial Adam and Eve"shame factor" has never been just a minor psychological component in the Christian tradition. Seeing as how America is predominantly Christian,that factwill havesome influence on some people's attitudes.And for what it's worth, look at Islam. It shares the Old Testament in common with Christianity, and the covering up from head to toeof the female body with a burka is an obvious symbol of repressive religious attitudes. The nudity-shame-sexuality connection, frankly, is why Mary, the mother of Jesus, was a "virgin", as the story goes,out of necessity. Anything else would have been "impure". Celibacyamong religious types even today in the 21st Century is viewed as theoretically making one closer to the Divine....another example of religiously inspiredconservative body denial.To me, these simple, but not simplistic,examples are an ingrained scripturalpart of the attitudes of the peoples of the Iron Age. And there are many todaywho still adhere to Iron Age thinking. Not you and I of course !Thanks again for turning me on to the reading material !
SirNarnian....thanks for the heads-up on the History of Christianity and Nudity ! I will check it out. I suppose the encroachment of women into the YMCA picture has had a bigimpact for sure in morerecent times. However, it would seem to methat the influence of long-standingreligious conservatism plays a role as well. The initial Adam and Eve"shame factor" has never been just a minor psychological component in the Christian tradition. Seeing as how America is predominantly Christian,that factwill havesome influence on some people's attitudes.And for what it's worth, look at Islam. It shares the Old Testament in common with Christianity, and the covering up from head to toeof the female body with a burka is an obvious symbol of repressive religious attitudes. The nudity-shame-sexuality connection, frankly, is why Mary, the mother of Jesus, was a "virgin", as the story goes,out of necessity. Anything else would have been "impure". Celibacyamong religious types even today in the 21st Century is viewed as theoretically making one closer to the Divine....another example of religiously inspiredconservative body denial.To me, these simple, but not simplistic,examples are an ingrained scripturalpart of the attitudes of the peoples of the Iron Age. And there are many todaywho still adhere to Iron Age thinking. Not you and I of course !Thanks again for turning me on to the reading material !
Well, first of all, you certainly didn't read the history or you wouldn't have made these comments, or you don't agree with the history timeline that was written. Second, I agree that Christianity had a big impact in the United States of America, BUT in the 1970s when America began to turn away form Christianity, so has the prevention of nudity swimming in Public Schools, the YMCA, and other places where it was the norm for those of the same gender to swim nude together. The Old Testament of the Christian Bible talks a lot about people going naked. Rather it's by praisingGod, or grieving. Mary was a virgin, BUT she had many children with Joseph. Joseph waited after her birth to conceive her with more children. Mary's virginity was necessary so that Joseph can't claim the child, only God. Nudity has many different meanings in the Old Testament, not just shame. It also a sign of openness, revealing truth, and nothing is hidden. God doesn't look upon nudity as anything bad, the bible says so. But because we now have the knowledge of good and evil, nudity now had it's boundaries, as does everything else. What's wrong with being a celibate? I'm a celibate and I enjoy nudity with my bros. Be carful on how you use the word conservative. Conservative means to stick with the old ways. This group is to bring back the old ways. To encourage segregated nudity in the Y.M.C.A.. As for Iron age, which Iron age and which culture are you talking about? Iron age 1200bc, Western Civilizationwas nude wrestling, fighting wars naked, etc... The American and European Iron Age of 17881865, was when men would bathe nude together, men's clubs were just beginning to form with nudity involve. Sigh... please do your research and keep an open mind that Christianity is not thevillain here. If it wasn't for Christianity,were wouldn't have the Y.M.C.A. or the history of nude swimming in the United States. READ the Time Linethat I sent you. You will be surprised.
Hey well done, lots of good information here. The historical time line links things together well that have been known about but maybe not put in such a succinct order and explanation.
Western society seems to have reacted in the last 50-100 years due to the behaviour of some who abused the privileges.
Sad for those of us who enjoy swimming especially. I do and wear speedo type briefs to do lap swimming and the ones I enjoy most are the ones that make me feel like I'm not wearing anything.
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