An Amazonian take on nudity
This from linguist Daniel Everett, from his negotiations with Kuisussi , the head of the Kisedeje tribe to stay with them for a study:
... his principal concerns about our conduct in his village. First, no sex between us and his people. He did not want outsiders stirring up emotions and disturbing his people's social lives by sexual contact of any kind, from flirtation to intercourse. Second, no pictures without permission. Third, no naked foreigners in the village. Kuisussi explained that, though we might see Kisedejes sans clothes, that was part of their culture. On the other hand, he stressed, public nudity is not part of the cultura dos brancos, or "pale people." When whites go naked in public, they mean something very different by it than do his people.
When whites go naked in public, they mean something very different by it than do his people.
This is one very wise and amazingly worldly tribal leader. I wonder how he learned so much about the ways of the modern world.... or, at least, the U.S. I guess nobody told him about the extremely small segment of the population, living in the midst of the textile throngs, called Nudists/Naturists. Is this a quote from a book you are reading? Or a study? Or what?
Sounds almost like a nudist resort manager interviewing a single male who wants to stop in for a day visit. ;-)
It's from "Language, a Cultural Tool", which I've just started reading. The general thrust is to deny a language instinct or mental structure, and consider language as just another thing humans have invented, kind of a rebuttal to Noam Chomsky. I'm not entirely buying the thesis, but the field work is interesting.
My own sense is that the leader's take on pale-people nudity would apply as much to nudists as to anybody else. Nudity does have a meaning for nudists, too, and it's relative to our own culture, even if it's oppositional to some extent.
My own sense is that the leader's take on pale-people nudity would apply as much to nudists as to anybody else. Nudity does have a meaning for nudists, too, and it's relative to our own culture, even if it's oppositional to some extent.
Good point. If we simply lived without clothes, as our normal state, without embracing it or labeling it; then we would be more in line with the tribe's ways.
Steve, I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. Is it that, on a continuum with modern culture at one end and tribal culture on the other, nudism is closer to the modern end than the tribal end? I would agree with that. But only because nudists can only strive for the ideal but never get there, due to the world we live in. Also, if we asked 100 self proclaimed nudists to express their individual definition of nudism, I think we would end up with precisely 100 different definitions. And some would be incompatible with others.
My personal take on nudism comes close to what Bruce is saying. Granted, being in line with tribal ways (with respect to nudity) would be an unattainable standard and goal, given the diversity of nudists and the world we live in, but a standard worth striving for in my humble opinion. But, I guess even if we were all of the same mindset and all strived for the same standard, we would look like a bunch of clueless rookies from the tribal end of the continuum. ;-)
I'm still amazed by that tribal leader. If the Native Americans had leadership with that kind of wisdom and insight in 1492, they'd still be in charge around here (Bet they'd still be naked too).
The tribal leader is certainly no naif - he's the guy who toured with Sting to promote indigenous rights.
I'm not sure I know what I'm saying about tribal nudity vs. western social nudity, really - just that we are so far outside the tribal culture that their leader's characterization doubtless applies to us, even as nudists. Theirs is not a primitive culture. They've been on the planet just as long as we have, and have their own ways and their own understandings.
We think and talk and write in the forums along several axes important in our own culture - is nudity sexual, or non-sexual? Optional, or mandatory? Is body shame (taken as a given) healed by it, turned to acceptance or pride, or should it be? Shave the body, mark or puncture it, or leave it alone? None of these questions is universal. Wherever we stand on these issues, we are standing outside any culture in which they are just not relevant.
just that we are so far outside the tribal culture that their leader's characterization doubtless applies to us, even as nudists.
We're on the same page. Thought so..... I was just making sure.
"It would be simply impossible for us to acquire the mindset of the tribe. Theirs is ingrained in them since birth, as is ours. It would be like someone 'losing' their accent if they moved to a different country. It will always be there to some extent."
Yup. Ok, same page here too. But I can't make the quote feature work like I want it to. LOL!
(I guess the solution is to reply with two posts?)
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